TDA alternatives

[RealLifeVideo.de]

Hello, I am Carsten from RealLifeVideo.de.

Since the beginning of the year I have received many messages from angry Tacx customers asking for alternatives to TTS4 (that can no longer be installed) or to the TDA (with which they are largely very dissatisfied). I always refer them to Rouvy and GoldenCheetah, which are also compatible with Real Life Videos.

To be honest I can't understand why people use TDA when Rouvy is available: It is an open software, the functionality is very extensive (including augmented reality), all videos can be integrated and it is cheaper than TDA. GoldenCheetah may be even more interesting as it is free and available for Linux and MAC OS.

And yes, of course I also have a personal interest that TDA is not (exclusively) used, after all it can't play 3rd party videos and I have 120 of them in the program.

Greets
Carsten

[Malfukt]

I can't understand why people use TDA when Rouvy is available

Could be something to do with the very high quality of videos and very accurate altitude data that comes with them..

Saying that "Augmented Reality" in Rouvy is definately a bonus..

[RealLifeVideo.de]

Could be something to do with the very high quality of videos and very accurate altitude data that comes with them..

All this for the price that dozens or hundreds of purchased videos are no longer usable. And videos of good quality and accurate elevation profiles are really no unique selling point of TDA. At least the newer ones of my videos are also of very good quality and the quality of my altitude data was already excellent when the Tacx profiles had little to do with reality (not my opinion but the opinion of my customers).

[BerthaVision]

Hmm for the last 4 years nearly all the films we produce are filmed with a full-sized 4K Cinema camera with incredibly expensive stabilization & iris control gear all via an electric EBike. All our grade data is recorded at cyclist speed via an inclinometer. There is not any single film in the collection that's originated from a GoPro or other cheap POV camera, all the rides are edited from raw footage. Thats our selling point regarding the film. For the rest Im sure the best option is to simply look & try the various options.

[RealLifeVideo.de]

Thats our selling point regarding the film.

So what? Like seeing a difference between a "full-sized 4K cinema camera" and a Gopro6+ on a tablet. And there is certainly no big difference between an inclinometer recording and an elaborately manually optimized profile.

For the rest Im sure the best option is to simply look & try the various options.

Or you consider how "satisfied" Tacx users are with the app or the support...

Who wants to can use TDA. But that longtime customers have to throw away all the videos they have bought in many years is not only impertinent but probably also illegal.
Interesting by the way that Tacx defends itself reflexively. The original post did not criticise the video quality in any way (nor did it later). If only Tacx had reacted just as immediately to error messages from customers...

So, in the end, with GoldenCheetah I just wanted to show another alternative to TDA besides Rouvy. I will not participate in further Schwanzlängenvergleichen (no idea what the English term for it is). The user may make his own opinion about the software and the videos. GC is free, Rouvy is available as a 14-day trial version and there are several demo versions of my videos.

[BerthaVision]

I never said anything about your films Carsten, only defended our own ones. I cant defend Tacx as Im not actually Tacx, only see the company once a year if that. Your right that if users have a lot of old films then using some 3rd party software could be a good solution. As for Rouvy I also do not understand why more dont use it..Ive not yet used it myself but I will admit Im a huge fan of some its features which have improved our early attempt in TTS4 & I like the direction they are going with it. I wish you luck Carsten

[mcorn]

longtime customers have to throw away all the videos they have bought in many years is not only impertinent but probably also illegal.

While I agree that this may not be good customer relations, I'm not sure it is illegal. No technology product is immune from obsolescence. People still have a license to use the films, but it may be a hollow right. I feel worse for those who recently purchased RLV's, even though Tacx announced some time before that TTS would soon become a legacy product. I've been advocating for some simple way that prior legal purchasers of coded Tacx videos could at least have a simple player program.

I think in another year or two, this will all be very academic as TTS will just completely fade away, except for a very small group of bike software junkies, just like the old Fortius software and the old Imagic Green software before that (how many remember that) and the old CompuTrainer software and all of its videos. This is just what happens. You never buy technology. You just rent it until it becomes useless. By the way, I have all of those products in my attic as well.

[kostya416]

And yes, of course I also have a personal interest that TDA is not (exclusively) used, after all it can't play 3rd party videos and I have 120 of them in the program.
Greets
Carsten

Well people make their choices, nothing's wrong about that.

[Alex Masalovich]

I have received many messages from angry Tacx customers asking for alternatives to TTS4 (that can no longer be installed)

State governments and transnational corporations often intimidate people for the convenience of management, so that everyone goes where indicated. Many threats in the modern world are imaginary or artificially created. You can assure your customers that if they take care of their files, they can use the TTS4 for as long as they want. In contrast, the TDA app will die immediately and instantly as soon as Garmin disables its server.

[RealLifeVideo.de]

While I agree that this may not be good customer relations, I'm not sure it is illegal.
You just rent it until it becomes useless.

Well, this may be true for the United States (there it doesn't even bother that the president commits countless crimes), but in the EU and especially in Germany the laws are somewhat different. And the laws of the country of the customer always apply.

[mcorn]

Well, this may be true for the United States (there it doesn't even bother that the president commits countless crimes), but in the EU and especially in Germany the laws are somewhat different. And the laws of the country of the customer always apply.

I think if you assert someone has done something illegal, you should be more specific how it is illegal in the EU and Germany.

P.S. Making a remark about the US President is hardly relevant to this subject. You may not be aware, but I was one of your US customers, so before spending a lot of time in criticizing Tacx and Garmin for its customer relations failures, you might take a more careful look at your own approach to the subject.

[RealLifeVideo.de]

Quite simply, if you buy a product in Germany, you have the right to use it without restriction. This is not the case with TTS4 and therefore most likely violates laws.
And what does it have to do with the fact that you were a customer of mine many years ago? With this comparison I just wanted to show that the USA and American companies care very little about laws, especially not when they are those of other countries.

[ATENEA]

With this comparison I just wanted to show that the USA and American companies care very little about laws, especially not when they are those of other countries.

I do not know where this thread is going to lead us!!! But let me offer some considerations.

A "law" is a text voted by a parliament. Once it is voted and the corresponding decrees are published, the law determines what is "legal" even if "legal" is not always "ethical" or "moral". Here are three examples of such laws (old, just like me):

Reichsflaggengesetz
Reichsbürgergesetz
Gesetz zum Schutze des deutschen Blutes und der deutschen Ehre

In many instances laws translate (with a time lag) into the judicial domain the evolutions of society and/or technology.

Even more often, laws remain in effect even when the evolution of society and/or technology make some of them obsolete or counterproductive.

Such is the fate of our societies: laws must me abided by, even if the evolution of technology and/or "mores and manners" make them completely outdated.

[nzuraw]

Quite simply, if you buy a product in Germany, you have the right to use it without restriction. This is not the case with TTS4 and therefore most likely violates laws.
And what does it have to do with the fact that you were a customer of mine many years ago? With this comparison I just wanted to show that the USA and American companies care very little about laws, especially not when they are those of other countries.

Alas almost all technical companies fall foul of local laws in one way or another. Some very minor and obscure laws, some more visible. It's a sign of our times alas.

[RealLifeVideo.de]

Reichsflaggengesetz
Reichsbürgergesetz
Gesetz zum Schutze des deutschen Blutes und der deutschen Ehre

Huh, are you saying that all Germans are Nazis? Very thin ice... Or do you mean that laws are basically just changeable guidelines and therefore don't need to be observed? Then I must tell you that this is the behavior of fascists all over the world. Such scum can only spread their crude theses and fake news thanks to the anonymity of the internet. They are only interested in their own opinion, because facts are "alternative".

[RealLifeVideo.de]

Alas almost all technical companies fall foul of local laws in one way or another. Some very minor and obscure laws, some more visible. It's a sign of our times alas.

And that makes it okay, or what?

[Malfukt]

Reichsflaggengesetz
Reichsbürgergesetz
Gesetz zum Schutze des deutschen Blutes und der deutschen Ehre

Huh, are you saying that all Germans are Nazis? Very thin ice... Or do you mean that laws are basically just changeable guidelines and therefore don't need to be observed? Then I must tell you that this is the behavior of fascists all over the world. Such scum can only spread their crude theses and fake news thanks to the anonymity of the internet. They are only interested in their own opinion, because facts are "alternative".

Do not know how you have construed that the post alludes to as you have so succinctly put it " All Germans are Nazi`s" it is not how I read the post at all, I read it as an example of that which original poster was trying to portray, ie: not all laws past by one country can/should be applicable to the laws of other countries.. those 3 examples where just a case in point.

Also that the law you stated as it stands in Germany that " buy a product in Germany, you have the right to use it without restriction." TTS was always restricted, it needed activation code for software and films to a server to enable its first use, then for continued use to some of it`s now not accessible features `GPS` it needed connection to google maps to which google removed the access.. plus it is subject to Tacx "Terms and Conditions" which are basically a restriction in it`s use, Does this mean with German law any producer//Seller of anything that has "Terms and Conditions" they do not apply..

Also it has been shown in other topics on the forum TTS can continue to be used if you follow some simple guidelines..

[mcorn]

Carsten gets defensive when he thinks (incorrectly) that someone implied all Germans are Nazis but seems to not have much of problem suggesting all Americans or all American companies are like Donald Trump.

And for all this talk of laws, Carsten has not actually cited a specific German or EU law or regulation that he claims Tacx and Garmin have violated. There is no legal guarantee that products will not become obsolete. Lawful purchasers of Tacx RLV's are still free to use them consistent with the terms of the original license under which they were purchased.

[nzuraw]

Alas almost all technical companies fall foul of local laws in one way or another. Some very minor and obscure laws, some more visible. It's a sign of our times alas.

And that makes it okay, or what?

No.. it doesn't, but as I said it's a sign of our times. We live in a digital era these days, an era most of us have seen from birth. The newer generations have only known the digital era and don't think much of the concerns that we have seen rise. My Samsung TV is a prime example of not working as sold. They've shut down functionality over the last 3 years, including Skype integration - which was one of the reasons we bought it. Can I sue Samsung... I could try...

[mcorn]

There are going to be zillions of embedded technology products that will stop performing in they way they did when originally sold and long before they physically wear out. Cars, refrigerators, light bulbs, electronics (the list goes on and on and applies to many things currently labeled as "Smart"). The technology that enables these devices to connect to the Internet and to the user is completely dependent on the state of the interfaces at the time they were released. And this all changes surprisingly rapidly. Just try being a backyard mechanic and fixing the electronics in your brand-new car. Good luck. And even if you could fix it, the parts will often not become unavailable. And one major issue that is going to obsolete much of this stuff fairly quickly are security vulnerabilities that are not fixable from a practical standpoint.

[Alex Masalovich]

An endless conclusion from our moderator: go with the flow, otherwise you will drown.

[mcorn]

An endless conclusion from our moderator: go with the flow, otherwise you will drown.

Actually your comment demonstrates you don't understand what I wrote, which is we have a real problem with things become obsolete before they are worn out. We also have a real problem with security.

[Alex Masalovich]

Actually your comment demonstrates you don't understand what I wrote, which is we have a real problem with things become obsolete before they are worn out. We also have a real problem with security.

And what I do not understand? You constantly urge to abandon the old and buy a new one.

[mcorn]

And what I do not understand? You constantly urge to abandon the old and buy a new one.

My post was intended to convey the technology trap we find ourselves in. I actually agreed with you in some ways. I never urged abandoning anything just because it was old. I still have a 1992 truck and a 1996 car. I keep things for as long as they work and they are safe. I try not to overdo jumping on a technology bandwagon. I am not an early adopter.

But when a product becomes non-functional (i.e., it no longer works) due to technological obsolescence, you often have no choice. Most consumers are not engineers, hackers, or geeks and have no interest in spending their time patching products and doing complicated workarounds to keep them going. And that is pretty much my view of TTS today.

[Alex Masalovich]

I am not an early adopter.

But at the same time you are a beta tester.

Most consumers are not engineers, hackers, or geeks and have no interest in spending their time patching products and doing complicated workarounds to keep them going.

You are again trying to restrict freedom in this forum. Ordinary users can contact the official support and get exactly what you preach there. But advanced users need just such a specialized forum as this one.

I generally believe that the interests of users do not really bother you. The profit of Garmin and other manufacturers - this is your first place. It is even possible that you have recently bought Garmin shares.

[Malfukt]

Alex Masalovich it would be appreciated if you did not feel the need to attack everyone whose point of view differs from yours and refrain from accusing members of things of which you do not know the facts

[Alex Masalovich]

to attack everyone

I’m not attacking anyone. The views of our moderator - this is the only thing with which I strongly disagree here on the forum.

[Malfukt]

to attack everyone

I’m not attacking anyone. The views of our moderator - this is the only thing with which I strongly disagree here on the forum.

.

Sent you PM.

[kostya416]

...Such is the fate of our societies: laws must be abided by, even if the evolution of technology and/or "mores and manners" make them completely outdated...

I think if all laws on books were strictly enforced the society would collapse in no time. Many laws are simply getting ignored by the government.

[mcorn]

But at the same time you are a beta tester.
* * *
You are again trying to restrict freedom in this forum. Ordinary users can contact the official support and get exactly what you preach there. But advanced users need just such a specialized forum as this one.
* * *
I generally believe that the interests of users do not really bother you. The profit of Garmin and other manufacturers - this is your first place. It is even possible that you have recently bought Garmin shares.

I am a beta tester because I have an interest in the subject (been doing it for 15 years) and I have the time. It is a hobby where I get a few freebies once in a while. My wife and I rode tandems extensively for 30 years until we got too old for the streets and highways. Throughout much of this time, we adapted various training machines (CompuTrainer and numerous Tacx models) to work with a tandem and used various software programs (Racermate, Netathlon, Imagic Green, Fortius, TTS, TDA, etc.). We still ride together most every day on a tandem.

Not sure how I restrict anyone's freedom, especially yours (unless you believe your freedom means no one will disagree with you).

Sorry, I do not own any shares in Garmin or any bike company. You are just making up stories for which you have zero evidence.