Too many videos on TDA?

[wilf]

Too many videos on offer to host competitions?

After using all versions of TTS for 10 years, I have about 200 videos or more, I tried ZWift this month.

In addition to the German eCycling Championships, German Cycling has also started other activities in Cycling for Everyone. So 3 Gran Fondos were offered that I wanted to test.

Couldn't go to the first event. I had problems with the second one, the user interface takes some getting used to. In the meantime, I have completed a couple of trainings on ZWIFT. I have to say it is different from cycling on video. Many other cyclists motivate to drive faster and longer, a similar effect I had on my favorite video Quick Step. Today was the third event and I cycled the event 80 km in 2:30 hours. I had never sat on the trainer for so long, maybe even 2 hours in Mallorca.

I've also had TDA for 2 months, the new videos are perfect, as you could expect from Phil. They also try a little more competition on the track. But there are max. 50 drivers on the track, completely distributed and the distances are only rudimentary.

Zwift has a total of only 200 km of routes and not better than programed in TTS4 VR. But there are several thousand Cyclists, who overtake you or you overtake them.

Perhaps it would be better not to have the entire selection of videos available for competitions that more cyclists are on the track. And then change the routes weekly.

Maybe for discussion. Not to say this way is better or this one. I love the videos but from the competition point of view, it is great sightseeing.

We have horrible weather, so it's time for mind games.

[Martin]

If you select one of the shorter videos and check the number of opponents you can start your own 'pursuit'

[BerthaVision]

If Tacx were ready & had the infrastructure to do it they could easily get 100s of riders on a single ride without needing to cut the selection down, its just a matter of advertising an event. To date though Ie never heard anything from tacx regarding the social aspect of it. I suspect it will remain a bit sterile still & although you can see the other riders on the map or as icons on the profile the software will remain very much a personal experience.

Actually just now its menu position that 100% dictates where most riders go, the default landing page of the mobile apps displays just a couple of routes & its these that seem to be the most busy, especially if they are flat, all of the easy catagories are actually hidden from about 1/3 of the userbase. There are rides which are filmed when all our gear was brand new that look awesome that nearly nobody rides (southern Alpine climbs like the Izoard, Cayolle, Champs Verdon etc) . One of the most scenic cycle tours is Appenzelle in Switzerland but because it was the 1st ride to be published its always empty, yet this was filmed not so long ago on Bertha in 4K. I think Tacx have about 1/10 of the Zwift market numbers wise.

[mcorn]

I would be surprised if there were very many complaints about too many videos. The huge library is a big plus for TDA. But as Phil suggests, having organized events with published starting times would be a good idea.

I remember that the network service that Netathlon 2 used (I think it was Gamespy) had a built-in chatroom that allowed for scheduling and pre- and post-race talking. Overall, the network function of Netathlon 2 and Gamespy was a bit marginal, but that was quite a few years ago. I expect that it would all work much better today. The system also allowed for real time audio conversations, but I think it took up too much bandwidth back then.

[BerthaVision]

I would be surprised if there were very many complaints about too many videos. The huge library is a big plus for TDA. But as Phil suggests, having organized events with published starting times would be a good idea.

I remember that the network service that Netathlon 2 used (I think it was Gamespy) had a built-in chatroom that allowed for scheduling and pre- and post-race talking. Overall, the network function of Netathlon 2 and Gamespy was a bit marginal, but that was quite a few years ago. I expect that it would all work much better today. The system also allowed for real time audio conversations, but I think it took up too much bandwidth back then.

For the moment Ive not heard any movement towards anything social or organised, I would be really surprised if they wanted to push in that direction also now Garmin is more involved. Its just too coorporate, it will be endless widgets if they do not pull the plug on the thing.

[mcorn]

if they do not pull the plug on the thing.

Do not understand this last comment.

Based on the competitive marketplace for bike software, having a strong, functional competition module would seem to be a good feature.

[BerthaVision]

if they do not pull the plug on the thing.

Do not understand this last comment.

Based on the competitive marketplace for bike software, having a strong, functional competition module would seem to be a good feature.

I think its too late now Mike. Yes for us it would be good but I cant see it happening now. You can kind of glimps where they will take it from the questionair they posted. There was not a hint of anything social, they put avatars on there but only because they can then point & say they are not needed, when actually to do anything social they are vital, they dont need to be actual riders but something needs to be there or there is no social.

[BerthaVision]

I just read they also had to cut the Strava images because of the cost, this is a cost that all our main competiors can deal with, its not even the end of the winter,

[Cycling2011]

I just read they also had to cut the Strava images because of the cost, this is a cost that all our main competiors can deal with, its not even the end of the winter,

Garmin takeover

[Malfukt]

Garmin will put shareholders before customers even though that without one (customer) the other (shareholder) will eventually lose out...

[BerthaVision]

For us its quite depressing although at least Bertha hopefully has another summer in it & we can at least film some local rides. No way we can afford to do Norway again at least without being sure we can make such a trip pay.

[Malfukt]

Think original poster was suggesting for competition use that TDA/TTA has a challenge section and that in that section only a few films are available (maybe 5) that way anyone going to challenge section will find more users on those 5 films to compete against..

The full Film list still available under films for users that just wish to ride as normal, check out new film, recovery ride etc

[BerthaVision]

Think original poster was suggesting for competition use that TDA/TTA has a challenge section and that in that section only a few films are available (maybe 5) that way anyone going to challenge section will find more users on those 5 films to compete against..

The full Film list still available under films for users that just wish to ride as normal, check out new film, recovery ride etc

If you look at the Tacx world map in TDA, most of the riders do the latest films released, especilly the 2 visible films in the landing page of the mobile app, I think there is a sizable % out there that simply do not know they can actually scroll through over 200 routes. The lest popular rides are simply those at the bottom of the menu, There is probably about 20-30 routes that near enough are forgotten even though they would be really popular if 're-released'. If Tacx wanted a lot of riders on any particular route for a race then they simply need to organise something. I do notice more now in Provence doing that challenge now, thats good to see, it kind of forces them to explore a bit more of the routes we have.

[mcorn]

If you look at the Tacx world map in TDA, most of the riders do the latest films released, especilly the 2 visible films in the landing page of the mobile app, I think there is a sizable % out there that simply do not know they can actually scroll through over 200 routes. The lest popular rides are simply those at the bottom of the menu, There is probably about 20-30 routes that near enough are forgotten even though they would be really popular if 're-released'. If Tacx wanted a lot of riders on any particular route for a race then they simply need to organise something. I do notice more now in Provence doing that challenge now, thats good to see, it kind of forces them to explore a bit more of the routes we have.

Phil-

I think those are very good observations. Human behavior tends to look at the most recent, which is the default filter setting in TDA (Date Published). This may also reflect that users have not become fully familiar with all the filtering and sorting settings in TDA. Also when TDA is first installed, it is in grid view rather than list view. List view shows a few more titles. Having an abbreviated list view available, could expand the list of titles shown without scrolling.

This really is a very large library of excellent quality rides, so I think that encouraging users to become more familiar with all the options would help. I think to some extent that is happening as the World Map seems to be getting more lit up.

[BerthaVision]

If you look at the Tacx world map in TDA, most of the riders do the latest films released, especilly the 2 visible films in the landing page of the mobile app, I think there is a sizable % out there that simply do not know they can actually scroll through over 200 routes. The lest popular rides are simply those at the bottom of the menu, There is probably about 20-30 routes that near enough are forgotten even though they would be really popular if 're-released'. If Tacx wanted a lot of riders on any particular route for a race then they simply need to organise something. I do notice more now in Provence doing that challenge now, thats good to see, it kind of forces them to explore a bit more of the routes we have.

Phil-

I think those are very good observations. Human behavior tends to look at the most recent, which is the default filter setting in TDA (Date Published). This may also reflect that users have not become fully familiar with all the filtering and sorting settings in TDA. Also when TDA is first installed, it is in grid view rather than list view. List view shows a few more titles. Having an abbreviated list view available, could expand the list of titles shown without scrolling.

This really is a very large library of excellent quality rides, so I think that encouraging users to become more familiar with all the options would help. I think to some extent that is happening as the World Map seems to be getting more lit up.

Tacx was going to add a very cool looking Netflix style of menu, you can see part of that in the mobile apps, but they kind of gave up & did not finish it sadly. Normally when opening the app you should see a selection of Categorys rather then rides, these would later be filtered more towards the type of rides you like to ride. Say a older lady may want to see "City trips" they see that - click it & see all the various citys they can visit....all of a sudden the app has become interesting & something of use to that customer. Just now its a mess, they will most likely see some mountains, the categorys only show mountains & classics..the show all button is so small that I bet half the customers have never spotted it. Anyway that menu was going to go into TDA also...something happened (I think linking to Garmin Connect) but near enough the development has stopped last year. The mobile app menu is now really a disaster.

[mcorn]

One suggestion I made for TDA was to have a personal setting that would specify how TDA would sort and/or filter upon opening. For example, for old folks like me, being able to have it open sorting by difficulty or cycle tours.

But really, I think the system is pretty good. It is a matter of having users become educated on how to use it. And since I stopped sorting by difficulty, I have gotten exposed to many different quality rides, which I can manage with the TDA difficulty setting even if it is bit slow getting up the hill. I've also found that even steep climbs are much better with my Neo2T compared to some of the older trainers because the Neo has much smoother and uniform braking.

Mobile apps playing on dinky screens is a whole other ballgame. I've never figured out how people are even interested in doing that unless they have no other alternative.

[nzuraw]

If only Tacx/Garmin had a more socially aware marketing team. Zwift has shown the market that with good marketing, you can get a product up on the podium and get investors. Rouvy are now doing the same with their augmented videos. I know we mentioned this many years back, but Tacx/Garmin are too cautious and are not really a 'leader' in the application world. Not because their product is inferior, but a lack of foresight in marketing. It reminds me of Sony Betamax in some ways.

I seem to recall Tacx were looking at augmented reality a while back - so it seems some of the ideas just fell through...

[BerthaVision]

If only Tacx/Garmin had a more socially aware marketing team. Zwift has shown the market that with good marketing, you can get a product up on the podium and get investors. Rouvy are now doing the same with their augmented videos. I know we mentioned this many years back, but Tacx/Garmin are too cautious and are not really a 'leader' in the application world. Not because their product is inferior, but a lack of foresight in marketing. It reminds me of Sony Betamax in some ways.

I seem to recall Tacx were looking at augmented reality a while back - so it seems some of the ideas just fell through...

The Augmented reality has been dropped to save money I guess.

[Malfukt]

The Augmented reality has been dropped to save money I guess.

Oddest way to run a business, thought you invested in product to ensure it's success.....think we have our answer

[mcorn]

Sometimes it is hard to tell if people are talking about Garmin or Tacx (of course, today they are one in the same). But most of what you see today in the Garmin/Tacx product line came from Tacx not Garmin. Personally, I think it will take a bit of time to see what the Garmin effect will be. By far the biggest problem with Tacx products over the years, both the hardware and software, was quality (or lack of it) and bugs. Tacx had a way of producing a big array of overlapping products with a lot of pretty marketing brochures but a number of these have been short in reliability. Over-marketing and over-promising might be a way to sell products, but it is not a way to gain happy customers. I am glad to see them get rid of some of the stuff and focus on making what they have work well. Today, I am happier with my Neo and TDA than anything I had in the past.

And I would not necessarily expect Garmin/Tacx to be a leader in the application world. Their primary business is selling hardware, not software. I think if they want to get into augmented reality, they would have had to take a serious look at whether they had the proper people and resources to develop this kind of very complex product. Tacx software development was always incredibly slow and that was long before Garmin. They seemed to have great difficulty producing the graphical VR programs in TTS. In order to get into an expensive augmented reality product, they would also have to switch marketing emphasis from Tacx hardware to all hardware makers.

From strictly a user perspective, they are a wide variety of software platforms available, so I am not sure if there is a burning need to add one more.

[ms6073]

It is a matter of having users become educated on how to use it.

Yes, but apps that do not provide an immersive and intuitive user experience tend to die a slow death.

Mobile apps playing on dinky screens is a whole other ballgame. I've never figured out how people are even interested in doing that unless they have no other alternative.

I imagine that is a sociological adaptation of current generation as they grew up with tablets and held gaming devices, thus are conditioned to that view. Alternately, while the app is on a hand-held/Smart device, I bet a significant number of them are simply casting the view to a Smart TV, otherwise there would be no point in subscribing to an app with 4K videos that you watch on the screen of a Smartphone.

[mcorn]

Not sure these observations are consistent with each other. It's a little hard to immerse yourself in a 6" screen hooked on your handlebars and two feet from your eyes regardless of the content on the screen.

apps that do not provide an immersive and intuitive user experience tend to die a slow death

I imagine that is a sociological adaptation of current generation as they grew up with tablets and held gaming devices, thus are conditioned to that view

[ms6073]

Sorry, I was referring primarily to apps for larger plan forms like tablets, laptops, or PC's. While there was a time where I was perfectly content using a legacy Bushido stand-alone with only the handlebar controller for a trainer workout, and I understand that there are a lot of people for which various constraints necessitate training with a cycling app on there smart device, I personally would not be willing to pay an ongoing subscription in order to train with a cycling app on my Samsung smartphone.

[mcorn]

Sorry, I was referring primarily to apps for larger plan forms like tablets, laptops, or PC's. While there was a time where I was perfectly content using a legacy Bushido stand-alone with only the handlebar controller for a trainer workout, and I understand that there are a lot of people for which various constraints necessitate training with a cycling app on there smart device, I personally would not be willing to pay an ongoing subscription in order to train with a cycling app on my Samsung smartphone.

Thanks for the clarification. I do agree with you that people seem to always want more, so having a more immersive experience of having a graphical overlay on a video could become the new norm. I don't know the cost of adding this kind of overlay would be, but I would think it would raise the cost of making a video substantially as this has to be done on some kind of frame by frame basis. I am sure there are tools to create these, but it would still seem to require a lot of customization. I could see it doubling or tripling the cost you make a video. If you have a huge market, that might not be an obstacle. But a smaller market could increase subscription rates.